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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
317
   |
Posted - 2015.11.17 18:16:01 -
[1] - Quote
afkalt wrote:There is instant counterplay.
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.
Clutching at straws to justify implementing a bad mechanic as usual I see AFK, you did enough of that already in the HIC thread, one might think you have a hidden agenda. It is obvious this won't be allowed in highsec for more reasons that incursion fleets.
As for the ship, they look really interesting, looking forward to finding out how they are going to be used. I also really like that you are moving links to a smaller class of ship to help small roaming gangs.
Also I'm looking forward to the RnK video involving these at some point... *chuckles*
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
317
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 18:20:29 -
[2] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Alyssia Benar wrote:Still no answer to whether we can jump Caps or not. :( You cannot jump caps. Sorry I missed that in the OP, it's added now. Does that include Orcas and Freighters? What about bastioned Marauders?
Good point, I'd suggest this definitely shouldn't work on a Bastioned Marauder either.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
317
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 18:24:25 -
[3] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Moac Tor wrote:afkalt wrote:There is instant counterplay.
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time. Clutching at straws to justify implementing a bad mechanic as usual I see AFK, you did enough of that already in the HIC thread, one might think you have a hidden agenda. It is obvious this won't be allowed in highsec for more reasons that incursion fleets. As for the ship, they look really interesting, looking forward to finding out how they are going to be used. I also really like that you are moving links to a smaller class of ship to help small roaming gangs. Also I'm looking forward to the RnK video involving these at some point... *chuckles* Oh do buzz off if you've no argument other than 'I don't like it'. We shouldn't be disallowing interesting mechanics to pander to people's laziness.
I actually like the command destroyer as you seem to have completely missed in my post which you quoted. I just don't like your terrible idea of allowing them to use the MMJD in high sec for VERY obvious reasons.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
317
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 18:35:15 -
[4] - Quote
Terra Chrall wrote:afkalt wrote:Moac Tor wrote:afkalt wrote:There is instant counterplay.
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time. Clutching at straws to justify implementing a bad mechanic as usual I see AFK, you did enough of that already in the HIC thread, one might think you have a hidden agenda. It is obvious this won't be allowed in highsec for more reasons that incursion fleets. As for the ship, they look really interesting, looking forward to finding out how they are going to be used. I also really like that you are moving links to a smaller class of ship to help small roaming gangs. Also I'm looking forward to the RnK video involving these at some point... *chuckles* Oh do buzz off if you've no argument other than 'I don't like it'. We shouldn't be disallowing interesting mechanics to pander to people's laziness. High Security space has for a long time held a different standard for the purpose of allowing different play styles in different regions. Certain capital ships are banned, Bombs are banned, Bubbles are banned, etc. Adding any of these to high sec would add interesting game play. But they would change what High sec currently is. Would use of MJF be interesting game play in high sec? Yes Would it alter the high sec play style? Probably yes. And thus it will likely fall into the same banned category as those other things for now.
Precisely. If you want to introduce stuff like this into high sec then you can't on a whim suddenly decide I want a game breaking mechanic introduced whilst barring all the others. High sec would need a complete rethink from the ground up. I'm not opposed to it myself although I don't use high sec much, and it seems to cater for a lot of players according to the statistics who would need to be considered.
That being said I'm all for nerfing high sec incursion fleets (perhaps move them to low sec?), although coming up with a poorly though out mechanic that adversely affects the whole of high sec just to try and nerf incursions fleets is clearly not the way to do it.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
319
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 21:00:31 -
[5] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:I absolutely love these things. I have a few questions tho about them which I haven't seen answered yet.
Does the pwg reduction for links apply to command possessors as well?
Can it jump/blink a marauders in bastion? If so that sees a little unfair, and could we get a reasoning for it?
Battleships will have a very hard time countering these things, even with support , could a special active module be made to allow battleships to self scramble? Thoughts?
Perhaps battleships and BCs could have a module which has an AEO scramble affect. I'm all for adding unique BS and BC modules and that would be super useful not only as a counter to these command destroyers, but also in general.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
319
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 21:59:20 -
[6] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:That is true, they do pay more attention to reddit. the final adjustments to the ships almost always from from /r/eve discussions. It's their preferred communications platform.
Topic has been completely derailed by a stupid discussion about MMJD being used in high sec which isn't going to happen. No wonder Devs refer to reddit despite the fact I think the contributions to eve forums are generally better and more well informed.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
325
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 10:08:38 -
[7] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:#3 - Suspect timer I like the idea of dropping these on gate campers who are hugging a gate and attempt to deaggress and jump, and you pull them 100km off gate. Same for smartbombing BS. That's cool. But certainly activating a MJFG needs the suspect timer and to cause gate guns to shoot you as well, because I can see these being used for ala kachuu people who are trying to burn back to gate. Especially the Bifrost/Stork; web off with a Daredevil or Vigilant, CD pulls you 100 off gate and your victim can't even get back to gate. Great.
Yes I agree with this, in low sec activation of the module should invoke instant sentry gun aggression (on stations and on gates). Or else it will be too easy to pull people who have de-aggressed with no risk.
The kind of ships that benefit most from de-aggressing on gates in both null and low sec will be larger ships such as BCs and BSs who pretty much rely on it for the bulk of their PvP, so perhaps some module for them that allows for some extra counter-play. I mentioned an AOE scram module earlier.
Bear in mind you have done a lot with the HIC long scram and now this to nerf BCs and BSs in the overall meta, so if you want them to remain viable then you'll need to do a balance pass and give them so new abilities as soon as possible.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
325
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 14:41:10 -
[8] - Quote
Just a suggestion here, but perhaps prevent use of these if they are within a certain range of a Stargate or a Station. The reason being that this could potentially kill a lot of PvP.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
326
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 09:54:05 -
[9] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:afkalt wrote:Shagmar Gera wrote:I just tested it on Singularity. And since so many people were asking...
So far:
The MJFG does jump bastioned marauders.
It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.
EDIT: Also! I MFJG'd a cyno ship. The Ship moved but the cyno stayed put. The marauder and cyno are really bad. Hopefully bugs. I really hope they fix these things.
Using it to jump a cyno offensively sounds like it could be powerful, atlhough I don't think it is particularly broken considering it is difficult to stop a cyno anyway.
The bastion module on the other hand has EWAR immunity and so it should definitely be immune or else marauders effectively become useless.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
326
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 22:14:36 -
[10] - Quote
GRNALL wrote:Deep space transports are going to be all but useless now to anyone who doesnt want to ......ahhhhhhhh SIT AT THE GAME AND ACTUALLY FLY THEIR SHIP. Align time makes the C-Dessie able to rip it off gate with almost zero counter except to scram the Dessie. But then whats the point of having the capability to run if you cant jump when you hit the next gate or dock when you hit the station. MMJD away...? Ohhh good times ahead.
I was testing this today and the DST will maintain its alignment even after being jumped. It won't be much of a change to DSTs, if you get caught after being jumped you were probably still going to be caught without a CD present.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
326
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 22:31:53 -
[11] - Quote
TarPalantir I wrote:Hopefully CCP realizes this and have considered the wide reaching impacts such a basic change to movement mechanics will have.
I have the impression that CCP haven't tested this thoroughly and are throwing it out there for us to test. It seems to be a method of balancing they have used for stuff such as the T3 Destroyers, Garmur, and more recently HIC 37.5km scrams.
CCP knows that the majority of players don't post on the forums and unfortunately I think they brush off a lot of the feedback unless it is overwhelming and balance by the statistics which they receive in game.
I expect this will be OP at first until players find all the game breaking things it can do and then CCP will fix them. After that it will slowly get nerfed until its usage is seen to be in line with other ships.
I think this is a shame as there is a lot of good feedback that can be found on here and would save a lot of hassle for both devs and players clearing up balance issues on singularity. But I can understand from CCPs position it is difficult to differentiate from the actual issues raised by players on the forum from those posters who are simply trying to push an agenda or reacting to a change that does not benefit themselves or their group.
I do hope that CCP takes note of the obvious stuff such as the issue with marauders and cynos, and also with the HIC long scram as there have been comments from a lot of very experienced PvPers on that issue. The rest though I expect will be tested live on Tranquility.
As for your comments on positioning, yes it seems logical that this will push fights into a 50km sweet spot. At 100km you are vulnerable to MJDs and now CDs, and at 150km+ you are vulnerable to probing. I don't see this as great as it kills a lot of long range doctrines. I also agree that a lot of these changes won't hit home until they are live on Tranquility, and at this early stage raising these points will be like shouting into the wind.
Good post by the way.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
326
|
Posted - 2015.11.20 10:40:10 -
[12] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Moac Tor wrote:
I was testing this today and the DST will maintain its alignment even after being jumped. It won't be much of a change to DSTs, if you get caught after being jumped you were probably still going to be caught without a CD present.
You aren't considering the effect of gate guns on light tackle if you try and tackle the DST directly on the gate. Ripping it off gate removes that issue.
Not quite, most decent gate campers will have something that can tank the gate guns, once you are caught my a semi competent gate camp then killing the DST should only be a matter of time.
The DSTs best defence is to avoid being tackled, it can do this my using MWD + Cloak, and also WCS in LS. The CD won't make any difference to whether you get tackled.
Also you'd need two CDs to pull the DST out of gate gun range. After having thought about this for a few days although I believe CDs are fine by themselves, being able to daisy chain jumps will be completely OP and game breaking as you can effectively move ships an unlimited distance by daisy chaining.
Want to bring snipers to your fleet, no problem, jump 100km to pick them up and pre activate another CD for the return journey.
Want to avoid gate guns, use two CDs to move 200km out of gate gun range.
I think this is too powerful as you have unlimited movement possibilities by daisy chaining.
Three changes I'd urge CCP to reconsider before these start to become balanced.
1. Disallow daisy chaining (perhaps after a CD is jumped the MJFG's needs a period of time to recalibrate).
2. An active bastion module should stop a marauder being jumped and the cyno should be jumped with the cyno ship if the ship is able to be jumped in the first place.
3. Activation of the MJFG should cause instant aggression upon activation rather than upon jumping.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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